00:00.000 --> 00:21.720 00:21.720 --> 00:24.560 00:24.560 --> 00:29.960 00:29.960 --> 00:44.600 00:44.600 --> 00:49.960 00:49.960 --> 00:54.160 This is session eight of the course. 00:54.160 --> 01:02.120 We're going to talk about what is the metaverse, what is a metaverse, what are metaverses, 01:02.120 --> 01:07.400 and I can give you the exciting conclusion from now we're not going to know the answer. 01:07.400 --> 01:11.120 I don't know the answer, I don't think anyone else knows the answer. 01:11.120 --> 01:17.960 So what we are going to do today is, I think ask the questions more than conclude on the 01:17.960 --> 01:18.960 answers. 01:18.960 --> 01:24.880 I also want to say something about scheduling which George and I agreed on earlier today, 01:24.880 --> 01:27.160 but we need to announce it online. 01:27.160 --> 01:34.960 We have a lot of guests and it's been hard to get the sessions out and get all the guests 01:34.960 --> 01:40.880 here so we're going to extend the course and particularly the time for the guests into 01:40.880 --> 01:41.880 January. 01:41.880 --> 01:45.240 We'll do the sessions on time and we'll do the guest, some of them now and some of them 01:45.240 --> 01:51.200 in January so we can fit everyone in because it's just to get everyone's schedules 01:51.200 --> 01:55.840 coordinated but we will go through as planned. 01:55.840 --> 02:02.160 And so as with other sessions, this is a session where we will get some concepts in 02:02.160 --> 02:12.640 place and we are then going to talk about then we're going to talk about some of these topics 02:12.640 --> 02:17.440 with some of the guests. 02:17.440 --> 02:28.680 So let me, I only have two titles for this session, Metaverse frameworks and Metaverses 02:28.680 --> 02:36.600 with a question mark and we'll talk about what these might be. 02:36.600 --> 02:45.840 So, it's clear that there is now much more interest in Metaverse than there has been 02:45.840 --> 02:46.840 historically. 02:46.840 --> 02:55.400 This is the Google Trends data from 2004 and basically it's a flat line on the floor 02:55.400 --> 02:58.320 until basically last year. 02:58.320 --> 03:06.640 And some interest picked up, then Facebook announced changing their name, etc. 03:06.640 --> 03:17.400 interest shot up and has now pulled off a little bit, but at hugely higher levels than 03:17.400 --> 03:18.920 we were before. 03:18.920 --> 03:28.760 And so I think it is fair to say that it is a topic that has now attracted a lot of interest. 03:28.760 --> 03:32.760 It is a topic that has attracted interest from civilians. 03:32.760 --> 03:40.480 I mean, it's interesting because I think some of us, you know, people with a more sci-fi 03:40.480 --> 03:47.960 type orientation have considered the Metaverse to be kind of an obvious thing for forever. 03:47.960 --> 03:51.040 I mean, decades. 03:51.040 --> 03:58.160 But you can see from the Google Search data that this has absolutely not been the case 03:58.160 --> 03:59.160 in general. 03:59.160 --> 04:08.080 You know, civilian interest in the Metaverse is maybe 12 to 18 months old. 04:08.080 --> 04:09.560 It's a great, 04:09.560 --> 04:25.160 so we're going to have a Metaverse and the interesting thing is, I think as many people 04:25.160 --> 04:31.960 as have written or spoken about the Metaverse as many people have written as one of those, 04:31.960 --> 04:33.960 that's how many definitions are the Metaverse 04:33.960 --> 04:38.400 and it's very interesting because I mean, I don't think any of them are right, but also 04:38.400 --> 04:40.960 I don't think any of them are wrong. 04:40.960 --> 04:43.000 And I want to go through these aren't you going to read these 04:43.000 --> 04:47.040 because I think these are very interesting because they give you a sense of the different 04:47.040 --> 04:50.040 ways people are thinking about. 04:50.040 --> 04:56.880 Some people are just hugely aspirational, very non-specific, 04:56.880 --> 05:01.360 it's not a big shock that McKinsey's in that bucket. 05:01.360 --> 05:07.360 But you know, the Metaverse seems to be whatever people's imaginations dream it to 05:07.360 --> 05:08.360 be. The verge, 05:08.360 --> 05:12.480 it's partially a dream for the future of the Internet. 05:12.480 --> 05:16.200 JPMorgan, the seamless conversion of our physical and digital lives 05:16.200 --> 05:22.880 and I mean, I think all of these are true, but they don't really give you much to, you 05:22.880 --> 05:24.440 know, hang your hat on. 05:24.440 --> 05:28.200 Then there's folks who get much more specific 05:28.200 --> 05:32.560 so we'll see you on that bit. 05:32.560 --> 05:39.600 In a time 3D social medium where people can create and engage in shared experiences as 05:39.600 --> 05:46.280 equal participants in an economy of societal impact. 05:46.280 --> 05:51.960 Matthew Ball, who has written a lot about the Metaverse, a massively scaled and interoperable 05:51.960 --> 05:59.040 network of real-time rendered 3D virtual worlds, which can be experienced synchronously and 05:59.040 --> 06:05.800 persistently by an effectively unlimited number of users with an individual sense of presence 06:05.800 --> 06:08.640 and with continuity of data. 06:08.640 --> 06:18.280 I think a definition like this is actually what most people, most civilians think of 06:18.280 --> 06:19.280 here. 06:19.280 --> 06:28.120 I think most civilians, when you tell the Metaverse, they're like, it's a 3D world and I probably 06:28.120 --> 06:32.560 have to put VR goggles and I'm not sure how interesting this is 06:32.560 --> 06:35.600 and anyway, it's not something I want to do 06:35.600 --> 06:38.680 and a lot of people are like that. 06:38.680 --> 06:44.560 And then there's these, I'd say more conceptual definitions where I'd put these conceptual 06:44.560 --> 06:48.760 definitions of like the Metaverse is already kind of here. 06:48.760 --> 06:54.200 You know, the Metaverse is not 3D or 2D or even necessarily graphical, 06:54.200 --> 06:59.840 It's about the inexorable dematerialization of physical space, distance and objects, John 06:59.840 --> 07:00.840 Radoffin. 07:00.840 --> 07:02.960 I like this one, to be honest. 07:02.960 --> 07:05.760 This is probably closer to my view, 07:05.760 --> 07:08.720 we'll come to that in a moment. 07:08.720 --> 07:15.080 And then, Sean Purney, "The Metaverse is the moment in time where our digital life is worth 07:15.080 --> 07:17.720 more than our physical life." 07:17.720 --> 07:30.520 I have to admit, if I was an outsider and I read all these things, it sounds like a word 07:30.520 --> 07:34.240 salad, to be honest. 07:34.240 --> 07:38.520 It doesn't sound very practical, it doesn't sound very real, it doesn't sound very here. 07:38.520 --> 07:44.360 We'll see how we think about this in a few more slides. 07:44.360 --> 07:52.000 Now in this section, I'm going to present three different Metaverse frameworks, how 07:52.000 --> 07:53.440 do I figure out a Metaverse? 07:53.440 --> 07:59.600 Two of which I stole from UNIC and one of which is my own. 07:59.600 --> 08:06.200 And so I'll do the UNIC ones that honor first and then I'll share mine. 08:06.200 --> 08:11.440 As usual, I don't think any of them are right and I don't think any of them are wrong. 08:11.440 --> 08:15.880 So, the Unichroto reported about the Metaverse for the European Union Blockchain Observatory 08:15.880 --> 08:24.720 and formed, and the team came up with a three-part framework. 08:24.720 --> 08:29.200 The first part is that it has universal impact. 08:29.200 --> 08:37.400 That a Metaverse, like other broadly adopted technologies and the internet, mobile phones 08:37.400 --> 08:41.440 and what have you, are universal in nature. 08:41.440 --> 08:45.000 They go across norms, disciplines, cultures, barriers. 08:45.000 --> 08:52.400 Some things you might think about is that some more specialized games, Metaverse, et cetera, 08:52.400 --> 08:57.640 might fail this first test of universality. 08:57.640 --> 09:01.800 The second test is persistence. 09:01.800 --> 09:07.320 I actually think this is important. 09:07.320 --> 09:13.680 So, here there's a you know, a cohesive and shared experience is created in your world. 09:13.680 --> 09:20.800 I think the mental model here is you leave and you come back and it's still there. 09:20.800 --> 09:22.600 It's not a firm rule. 09:22.600 --> 09:33.800 And the fire is adaptability, here defined as users can immerse themselves in a limited 09:33.800 --> 09:37.800 or significant way according to their individual needs. 09:37.800 --> 09:42.280 It's a reasonable framework to be honest. 09:42.280 --> 09:47.920 It's simple, it's straightforward, it's fairly conceptual. 09:47.920 --> 09:52.920 Let's put it as one mental model. 09:52.920 --> 09:57.920 Then we have a second framework that I call the "Giaglis Framework", 09:57.920 --> 09:59.360 George came up with it, 09:59.360 --> 10:03.120 he doesn't actually call it the Giaglis Framework. 10:03.120 --> 10:07.600 So, he's probably going to yell at me that I called it that in the presentation, 10:07.600 --> 10:14.760 but since he's the one who told it to me, I have put his name on it. 10:14.760 --> 10:23.080 And here is has six characteristics across two dimensions. 10:23.080 --> 10:28.920 And the dimensions one is technological in nature, one is governance in nature, 10:28.920 --> 10:31.640 and I think this is really interesting too. 10:31.640 --> 10:35.040 This is kind of more specific and more future looking, I think. 10:35.040 --> 10:42.880 And here the technology properties are photorealism, immersive as in persistence and what I call 10:42.880 --> 10:49.160 is the governance property, data ownership, openness and censorship resistance. 10:49.160 --> 11:05.160 And his view of this is not that more photorealism is good and less photorealism is bad or more 11:05.160 --> 11:17.920 photorealism is more Metaverse and less photorealism is less Metaverse and this applies for all of these variables or all these parameters, 11:17.920 --> 11:19.720 it's just a way to classify them. 11:19.720 --> 11:23.360 It's a way to say this Metaverse is photorealistic, 11:23.360 --> 11:25.840 this Metaverse is 11:25.840 --> 11:26.840 not photorealistic. 11:26.840 --> 11:35.960 And so, you start thinking about these as sliders or spectrums. 11:35.960 --> 11:38.400 So one spectrum is a photorealism, 11:38.400 --> 11:45.640 are we trying to replicate the visual model of the real world? 11:45.640 --> 11:52.680 Or as many games or social media or other possible universes don't look like the real 11:52.680 --> 11:54.000 world, at all? 11:54.000 --> 11:58.040 The second is immersiveness. 11:58.040 --> 12:08.440 How much are you in this world versus not in? 12:08.440 --> 12:09.440 What's the degree? 12:09.440 --> 12:14.360 You know, email is partially immersive. 12:14.360 --> 12:15.360 I sit at my laptop, 12:15.360 --> 12:16.360 I do things, 12:16.360 --> 12:24.320 I have my email client open, I go in and out, 12:24.320 --> 12:25.320 it pings me, 12:25.320 --> 12:26.320 This harasses a little bit. 12:26.320 --> 12:27.320 12:27.320 --> 12:28.320 I'm never totally out, 12:28.320 --> 12:30.320 I'm never totally in. 12:30.320 --> 12:35.440 If you're playing some first person shooter VR game with VR goggles, I'm only pretty 12:35.440 --> 12:36.440 immersed. 12:36.440 --> 12:37.440 You're not. 12:37.440 --> 12:39.000 You're not also. 12:39.000 --> 12:42.600 I can reply to emails and cook pasta. 12:42.600 --> 12:44.680 I can't play a VR game and cook pasta, right? 12:44.680 --> 12:46.760 So it's a level of immersiveness. 12:46.760 --> 12:49.360 Again, not that immersive is good or bad. 12:49.360 --> 12:52.360 It's just a slider. 12:52.360 --> 12:54.720 Persistence and here, 12:54.720 --> 13:00.560 George has a different definition of persistence than my earlier definition of persistence, 13:00.560 --> 13:04.640 which may end up right or 13:04.640 --> 13:05.640 wrong. 13:05.640 --> 13:14.720 Is it always on? 13:14.720 --> 13:17.520 Does it follow you? 13:17.520 --> 13:18.520 Things to imagine. 13:18.520 --> 13:20.520 I'd say you had a virtual pet, right? 13:20.520 --> 13:21.520 It comes with you. 13:21.520 --> 13:22.520 It's there, 13:22.520 --> 13:29.800 it's persistent, which is somehow similar to, you can leave and come back and it's still 13:29.800 --> 13:34.960 there, that version of persistent, but it's a little bit different framework on. 13:34.960 --> 13:41.240 And then the governance properties are interesting. 13:41.240 --> 13:43.680 These are the types of topics that are exciting to me, 13:43.680 --> 13:46.840 we'll talk about them a few slides down as well. 13:46.840 --> 13:54.080 You know, data ownership, can users own the assets in the virtual world and can they 13:54.080 --> 13:57.720 take them out of the metaverse to another virtual world? 13:57.720 --> 14:02.520 It's interesting even hearing this definition. 14:02.520 --> 14:07.560 Someone might ask, what's the metaverse and what's the virtual world and why are they 14:07.560 --> 14:08.560 different? 14:08.560 --> 14:16.000 We'll come to this question of is metaverse singular and metaverse plural. 14:16.000 --> 14:22.880 Openness can developers or in my view, I think individuals, it doesn't have to be developers, 14:22.880 --> 14:32.720 Minecraft is, you don't need to be a developer to build things in Minecraft. 14:32.720 --> 14:40.440 And is the virtual world open to developers to create spaces, experiences, objects, applications? 14:40.440 --> 14:42.240 Is it customizable? 14:42.240 --> 14:50.480 And then the censorship resistance, so the degree to which users can be prohibited from 14:50.480 --> 14:55.160 accessing the virtual world restricted in their experiences or kicked off the metaverse 14:55.160 --> 14:58.800 by some centralized authority who owns or controls the world. 14:58.800 --> 15:03.600 Yeah, this is my personal obsession, 15:03.600 --> 15:10.720 arguably, I think today basically no metaverse is censorship resistant, and 15:10.720 --> 15:15.280 there's always a counterparty that is controlling it. 15:15.280 --> 15:25.240 I think this is an interesting and more practical framework for classifying metaverses or potential 15:25.240 --> 15:26.240 metaverses. 15:26.240 --> 15:33.600 And I think it's something that I don't assign work to anyone, but it could be, you could have this 15:33.600 --> 15:40.800 grid and put different metaverses in this grid and see where they fall out. 15:40.800 --> 15:50.080 Because I'm not advanced, I have a simpler definition of the metaverse, which is my framework 15:50.080 --> 15:54.360 on it, which is just one sentence. 15:54.360 --> 16:03.200 And my definition is, it is the internet with better visualization and persistent digital 16:03.200 --> 16:06.600 objects. 16:06.600 --> 16:23.320 And this is a quite different approach because I've kind of defined my way out of the singular 16:23.320 --> 16:31.320 or plural metaverse question and there's a reason for this. 16:31.320 --> 16:41.240 And I think my framework is going to be more relevant in the longer term. 16:41.240 --> 16:46.440 I think the other framework is great for today, but I think it's more relevant in the longer 16:46.440 --> 16:47.440 term. 16:47.440 --> 16:50.920 Why do I think that? 16:50.920 --> 16:59.760 Imagine any type of world where we have all these, let's call them "metaverse experiences". 16:59.760 --> 17:04.280 They're persistent, they're immersive, they may be photo realistic. 17:04.280 --> 17:06.440 They follow us around. 17:06.440 --> 17:12.000 They're probably AI enabled in many ways. 17:12.000 --> 17:16.160 There'll be multiple things, it won't just be one thing, I don't think it'll just be 17:16.160 --> 17:19.440 one metaverse and that metaverse is going to be Minecraft, right? 17:19.440 --> 17:28.280 Well, imagine that's the case and it's not today, it's 10 years from now or 15 years from 17:28.280 --> 17:32.440 now, or 20 years from now, it doesn't really matter when you pick. 17:32.440 --> 17:42.280 I don't think in that world we will have the metaverse and separately, the internet. 17:42.280 --> 17:47.880 I don't think you'll say, "oh, today I'm going to go use the internet and then later today 17:47.880 --> 17:50.640 I'm going to go use the metaverse". 17:50.640 --> 18:00.880 I think they're going to become the same thing, just like there was a time, maybe still true 18:00.880 --> 18:09.320 today, that like, mobile apps was a different thing, mobile was a different thing than desktop. 18:09.320 --> 18:16.640 I'm sure the phone factor is different, but I basically use more or less all the same 18:16.640 --> 18:25.440 applications on the desktop and on my phone and, I don't know if that's like some separate 18:25.440 --> 18:26.440 ecosystem. 18:26.440 --> 18:30.000 Or here's another way to think about it. 18:30.000 --> 18:35.440 Let's say you're in one of these, for argument's sake, three dimensional spaces. 18:35.440 --> 18:45.480 It isn't going to be the case that if you want to have extended conversations or chats 18:45.480 --> 18:50.360 with people in those spaces, you're going to leave them and go to some other chats 18:50.360 --> 18:53.280 offer. 18:53.280 --> 19:00.520 My guess is no, today the user experience, the user interface for having chats in these 19:00.520 --> 19:03.680 three spaces is kind of wonky. 19:03.680 --> 19:11.000 That's why I was still use Twitter and Discord and WhatsApp and Telegram and all these other 19:11.000 --> 19:12.000 things, right? 19:12.000 --> 19:20.720 But the idea that again, a decade from now, we have this kind of persistent immersive 19:20.720 --> 19:30.000 environment and yet in order to chat to someone, in order to chat to someone, you have to 19:30.000 --> 19:34.800 leave it, and go somewhere else, 19:34.800 --> 19:35.800 makes no sense to me. 19:35.800 --> 19:41.040 If you're still, if it's a decade from now and you still have to leave the quote/unquote 19:41.040 --> 19:49.000 "metaverse" for me to send a DM to George, well, I mean, I don't think that metaverse will 19:49.000 --> 19:50.000 be very effective. 19:50.000 --> 19:51.000 Is that okay? 19:51.000 --> 19:52.000 Well, okay, fine. 19:52.000 --> 19:53.000 We'll have you. 19:53.000 --> 19:54.000 What about other things? 19:54.000 --> 19:55.000 Email? 19:55.000 --> 19:57.760 You know, I'm sure we'll have email a decade from now 19:57.760 --> 20:02.680 but why can't I answer my email in that environment? 20:02.680 --> 20:07.880 It's just a form factor, a UX UI for reading my email, 20:07.880 --> 20:11.240 why can't I read my email in a private room? 20:11.240 --> 20:16.400 Why do I have to read it in the interface that it has now? 20:16.400 --> 20:17.400 Well, sure, 20:17.400 --> 20:18.400 Okay, 20:18.400 --> 20:20.880 but what about an old studio computer? 20:20.880 --> 20:23.640 I watch a movie, 20:23.640 --> 20:24.640 Okay, 20:24.640 --> 20:28.360 You can watch a movie in a three-year environment. 20:28.360 --> 20:32.680 I want to work on Excel. 20:32.680 --> 20:43.000 And in fact, you know, you could have, I assume by that point, you'll have much more screen 20:43.000 --> 20:44.000 space to work with, 20:44.000 --> 20:47.200 you might have many Excels out there. 20:47.200 --> 20:58.200 So I just, I will be surprised if in the long run you go and spend a lot of time and some 20:58.200 --> 21:04.240 type of immersive environment and then you leave it to do all the other stuff you do 21:04.240 --> 21:05.240 now that's less immersive. 21:05.240 --> 21:14.160 To put it differently, I think the immersive environment can subsume the non-emersive environment. 21:14.160 --> 21:19.120 But I don't think the other way around works. 21:19.120 --> 21:22.840 You can have a 2D chat box in a 3D space. 21:22.840 --> 21:26.240 It's kind of hard to have a 3D space with a 2D chat box. 21:26.240 --> 21:35.600 And so if you believe in this, I just don't see any way it's not going to be like this 21:35.600 --> 21:41.440 then, the internet goes away. 21:41.440 --> 21:42.680 Now it doesn't go away, 21:42.680 --> 21:43.840 it's all right there. 21:43.840 --> 21:50.560 It's been the plumbing of how we communicate in a distance for many decades. 21:50.560 --> 21:57.360 But the idea that the internet and the metaverse are separate spaces, I think eventually ends. 21:57.360 --> 22:00.880 It's an open question I'm willing to concede, 22:00.880 --> 22:05.240 but I don't know when; is it in 10 years? 22:05.240 --> 22:07.240 Is it in 7? 22:07.240 --> 22:08.240 Is it in 23? 22:08.240 --> 22:17.040 But pick any arbitrary, arbitrary future point, 100 years from now. 22:17.040 --> 22:21.320 We have human brain interfaces. 22:21.320 --> 22:23.320 We don't even have physical devices. 22:23.320 --> 22:29.440 You're thinking about something and you're seeing it in front of you directly through 22:29.440 --> 22:30.440 your neurons. 22:30.440 --> 22:35.040 Are you really going to separately go use the internet somewhere else? 22:35.040 --> 22:37.040 I don't think so. 22:37.040 --> 22:39.040 I think they merge. 22:39.040 --> 22:40.040 And then they merge. 22:40.040 --> 22:42.800 It's just the internet that they merge. 22:42.800 --> 22:45.800 The metaverse is anyway running today on the internet. 22:45.800 --> 22:49.240 The metaverse space we're talking about is running on the internet. 22:49.240 --> 22:55.640 But what's the second pillar with better visualization? 22:55.640 --> 23:07.920 And this concept of better visualization is one that is a consistent theme in the internet 23:07.920 --> 23:09.160 since the day it started. 23:09.160 --> 23:10.920 It used to be touch-based. 23:10.920 --> 23:14.920 Then we got some pictures. 23:14.920 --> 23:17.600 Then we got really lousy video. 23:17.600 --> 23:23.240 An old enough term for when video was lousy on the internet. 23:23.240 --> 23:31.160 And today you can watch an HD movie on the internet. 23:31.160 --> 23:40.480 You can do a zoom and you have free global video conferencing on your laptop or even 23:40.480 --> 23:42.480 on your phone. 23:42.480 --> 23:48.480 Global video teleconference used to be a big company feature 15 years ago. 23:48.480 --> 23:52.760 You went to a special conference room to do that. 23:52.760 --> 23:56.480 And that's showing no sign of stopping. 23:56.480 --> 24:03.480 What I think is going to be the transition now is 3D visualization, the browser, the 24:03.480 --> 24:06.280 probably what is on the next side, 24:06.280 --> 24:13.280 and then augmented and virtual reality belong to them where they'll be together. 24:13.280 --> 24:21.000 I think once the devices get sufficiently functional, you'll have something like a pair 24:21.000 --> 24:22.000 of sunglasses. 24:22.000 --> 24:26.400 Those pair of sunglasses will be mostly an awkward to reality. 24:26.400 --> 24:31.160 You'll also see the world around you, but also have digital objects there. 24:31.160 --> 24:37.200 See your fiddens on your wall or you'll have your Phoenix all spreadsheets floating around, 24:37.200 --> 24:42.720 but they'll have the ability to pop into virtual reality and hide the world around you. 24:42.720 --> 24:46.160 And that's going to come. 24:46.160 --> 24:48.440 It's not there yet. 24:48.440 --> 24:51.600 I know of no specific person, 24:51.600 --> 24:56.200 I'm sure there's some of the world's lessons, but I don't know any of them who wears a virtual 24:56.200 --> 24:57.200 reality headset all day. 24:57.200 --> 25:01.200 And there's a lot of excitement about the upcoming Apple augmented reality. 25:01.200 --> 25:05.720 I'd say maybe this will be a step forward and this is not going to work right every 25:05.720 --> 25:06.720 day. 25:06.720 --> 25:11.680 Every year we'll have a step forward where the devices will get more functional, more practical, 25:11.680 --> 25:17.120 and we will see this level of forwardness. 25:17.120 --> 25:19.040 I don't think we're there yet. 25:19.040 --> 25:24.160 I don't think it's like next year we're all going to be wearing AR and VR models. 25:24.160 --> 25:39.360 And then for persistence, I think of it about the digital objects. 25:39.360 --> 25:42.160 My mental models that will have persistent digital objects. 25:42.160 --> 25:43.160 Now what's a digital object? 25:43.160 --> 25:44.160 It'll be anything, right? 25:44.160 --> 25:47.200 It could be a piece of art. 25:47.200 --> 25:51.280 It could be an avatar. 25:51.280 --> 25:54.040 It could be a wearable. 25:54.040 --> 26:01.840 It could be a specific three dimensional space in which you do something. 26:01.840 --> 26:06.640 It could be a piece of "land". 26:06.640 --> 26:08.840 The land is different than a space, right? 26:08.840 --> 26:16.160 Land implies that there's some type of property that is surrounded by 26:16.160 --> 26:18.760 other property and you own a specific property. 26:18.760 --> 26:21.600 A space doesn't need to be the same as land, right? 26:21.600 --> 26:29.880 You can have a space that's not tied to some property grid. 26:29.880 --> 26:40.960 And my view of persistence is that they are there, when you come back. 26:40.960 --> 26:45.120 Now, where that open metaverse stuff? 26:45.120 --> 26:46.720 Well, it's not in the stuff initially. 26:46.720 --> 26:53.160 But to me as a definition, you could imagine closed metaverses fulfilling these conditions. 26:53.160 --> 26:57.120 And I think for the question over here, what's a metaverse? 26:57.120 --> 26:58.120 That's fair. 26:58.120 --> 27:05.400 There's going to be closed metaverses and they might even win or partially win. 27:05.400 --> 27:13.840 So I don't think we can say that the definition of a metaverse by definition means it's open. 27:13.840 --> 27:15.400 It might be closed. 27:15.400 --> 27:20.040 We can think about what are the characteristics that make it open. 27:20.040 --> 27:23.880 But it's not like it's a short thing, but it's going to be open. 27:23.880 --> 27:32.240 But for me, these three things are the three main ones. 27:32.240 --> 27:34.240 They cover all scenarios. 27:34.240 --> 27:39.480 That is a less useful framework than say George's for classifying different metaverses 27:39.480 --> 27:40.480 on different dimensions. 27:40.480 --> 27:51.200 But it also, I think, is it covers almost any possible inconsolable manner. 27:51.200 --> 27:58.880 I want to show an example here because I think people often, you say VR and AR, and this 27:58.880 --> 27:59.880 all cannot make sense. 27:59.880 --> 28:02.480 There is a 3D visualization browser. 28:02.480 --> 28:03.480 What do you mean? 28:03.480 --> 28:10.160 And this is a very silly example, but I think it illustrates the point. 28:10.160 --> 28:13.720 These are both screen grabs from the browser. 28:13.720 --> 28:24.760 And on the left is the website over the museum of modern art, a mobile that has the inventory 28:24.760 --> 28:25.760 of everything at the moment. 28:25.760 --> 28:27.520 That is perfectly fine and functional 28:27.520 --> 28:35.680 and you can search by artist and you get this list of artwork. 28:35.680 --> 28:42.960 And on the right is the generative gallery of the 6529 museum, also running in 28:42.960 --> 28:43.960 the browser 28:43.960 --> 28:48.120 but one of them is 3D. 28:48.120 --> 28:55.880 And I think, over time, quite a few usage cases will migrate from the visualization on 28:55.880 --> 28:59.240 the left to the visualization on the right. 28:59.240 --> 29:05.920 Now, some things might stay on the visualization on the left for speed and ease of use 29:05.920 --> 29:11.920 and certainly we are not particularly ready to go to the right because they are still 29:11.920 --> 29:14.920 all of them are wonky. 29:14.920 --> 29:26.040 Even, do I think, oh, which is where this is on the right, is ready for prime time, 29:26.040 --> 29:30.200 retail, consumer use? 29:30.200 --> 29:34.480 That's okay, it's still early. Over the course of the next few years, 29:34.480 --> 29:42.320 we'll sort out how to make these spaces functional and fast and performant 29:42.320 --> 29:47.320 and people will figure out what is the model for moving around these spaces. 29:47.320 --> 29:51.160 Everyone now knows the model for working on the web. 29:51.160 --> 29:55.120 But it took a long time to sort that out. 29:55.120 --> 30:01.560 But I do think there are many usage cases where looking at something with this more expressive 30:01.560 --> 30:03.560 visualization has got to make sense. 30:03.560 --> 30:08.840 And as I was saying, you can put goggles on and go into VR into that gallery. 30:08.840 --> 30:09.840 Yeah, that's true. 30:09.840 --> 30:10.840 It can. 30:10.840 --> 30:13.080 But VR is there now. 30:13.080 --> 30:20.240 And so it's not, actually, don't think it's the rendering that's hugely the problem 30:20.240 --> 30:21.240 right now. 30:21.240 --> 30:23.240 I think it's the devices. 30:23.240 --> 30:27.680 Yes, that gallery, we can see it in VR 30:27.680 --> 30:29.680 and I've seen it once in VR. 30:29.680 --> 30:35.120 And every other time I went, I just went to the browser because I wasn't going to go 30:35.120 --> 30:39.440 get VR goggles and put them on just to go and insert something. 30:39.440 --> 30:44.840 So until that becomes easier, I think it's going to be mostly, most of the screen time 30:44.840 --> 30:52.040 is going to be in the browser not in VR and 3D on your browser or your computer, not 30:52.040 --> 30:53.040 in VR, we will get there in time, 30:53.040 --> 30:54.040 but not yet. 30:54.040 --> 31:07.840 Anybody definition raises a question, which is a general question of, is metaverse a 31:07.840 --> 31:08.840 singular or plural word? 31:08.840 --> 31:09.840 31:09.840 --> 31:10.840 31:10.840 --> 31:11.840 31:11.840 --> 31:25.840 And I'll say as always, I don't know. 31:25.840 --> 31:34.800 Nobody knows. 31:34.800 --> 31:54.840 But I will throw out a concept about how potentially, we can resolve it. 31:54.840 --> 32:03.560 And maybe the concept, which I think matters more, my definition is all unbiased, I think. 32:03.560 --> 32:11.760 My concept is that today they are plural and that some sufficiently far off time in the 32:11.760 --> 32:16.720 future, it's singular. 32:16.720 --> 32:18.720 Why are they plural today? 32:18.720 --> 32:27.600 Well, because today, metaverse spaces are a small fraction of the internet 32:27.600 --> 32:37.120 and so you kind of need the word to distinguish them from a regular website or a regular mobile 32:37.120 --> 32:38.120 application. 32:38.120 --> 32:41.520 It's very clear that not every website is a metaverse, right? 32:41.520 --> 32:45.360 And not every mobile application is a metaverse. 32:45.360 --> 32:57.440 And there is obviously more than one competing for this idea of being a metaverse. 32:57.440 --> 33:05.960 So I think today, it's sensibly a plural topic. 33:05.960 --> 33:15.520 If this is correct, but in the long run, the internet won't really be a different thing, 33:15.520 --> 33:24.160 I think in the long run, it's not going to make as much sense that they are plural, I 33:24.160 --> 33:25.160 think. 33:25.160 --> 33:27.680 I think the whole thing is going to just be metaverse. 33:27.680 --> 33:34.520 The way to think about it is, I don't know, imagine a kid growing up in 2040. 33:34.520 --> 33:45.000 You know, if you have spent any time around young kids today and you're a little bit older, like 33:45.000 --> 33:54.200 I am, it's a little bit disconcerting that they look at the TV as kind of being a subset 33:54.200 --> 33:56.800 of an iPad or something, right? 33:56.800 --> 34:02.520 A TV is a poorly functioning iPad, 34:02.520 --> 34:13.240 you can't do things on demand and, you know, I mean, linear TV, right? 34:13.240 --> 34:17.840 And then, you know, with smart TVs, you end up getting the YouTube and Netflix and whatever 34:17.840 --> 34:19.840 applications on them 34:19.840 --> 34:24.920 and so, they just become an iPad. 34:24.920 --> 34:32.040 The linear TV part of the TV is close to irrelevant. 34:32.040 --> 34:33.680 And that's weird, 34:33.680 --> 34:42.120 if you remember, like I remember, when TV was one thing and streaming video was something 34:42.120 --> 34:53.680 else, so you turn on TV and you watch on NBC, the Thanksgiving Day Parade, it's on NBC or it's 34:53.680 --> 34:54.680 on CBS, however 34:54.680 --> 34:58.720 tomorrow you'll turn on network TV and you'll watch the Thanksgiving Day Parade. 34:58.720 --> 35:05.280 And then you'd go to your computer, to the internet, and watch a YouTube video. 35:05.280 --> 35:15.800 And those were very distinct things and there were whole reports about internet video and 35:15.800 --> 35:22.680 video on demand and over the top video and I think those reports still exist, right? 35:22.680 --> 35:30.480 And if I look at older people, there's the most you watch a linear TV and you're going 35:30.480 --> 35:37.720 to get a little bit on their iPad or what have you and they're still very distinct. 35:37.720 --> 35:47.080 But if someone doesn't have the history and is starting you, the idea of telerestrials 35:47.080 --> 35:54.680 or cable or linear TV is absurd and irrelevant and stupid, right? 35:54.680 --> 36:01.000 It's all video and they're just different screens. 36:01.000 --> 36:09.840 I think very abstractly, very conceptually, that's how it's going to be. 36:09.840 --> 36:19.400 You know, once these metaverse spaces are performant and simple to use and in any case, 36:19.400 --> 36:22.840 I believe it's going to be easy to go from one to another, even in the closed case. 36:22.840 --> 36:29.720 I think it is going to be easy to go from one to another. 36:29.720 --> 36:40.600 Then someone who does not have the prior experience of a pre-metaverse internet, I think it's 36:40.600 --> 36:45.200 just going to be the one thing that you go and do things. 36:45.200 --> 36:47.200 I'm not specific applications there, right? 36:47.200 --> 36:50.200 And yeah, maybe the one by then is not going to be metaverse, right? 36:50.200 --> 36:51.360 Maybe there'll be something else. 36:51.360 --> 36:54.440 But I do think it's going to be unified in the end. 36:54.440 --> 37:02.720 I don't think it's going to be a bunch of different ones. 37:02.720 --> 37:10.240 Now, just conceptually here, we're not going to get into so much details on each one 37:10.240 --> 37:16.880 of these, but where were what might be the earliest metaverse? 37:16.880 --> 37:25.920 You know, multi-user versions were text-based and they had characters and you interacted 37:25.920 --> 37:26.920 with people. 37:26.920 --> 37:27.920 Immersive? 37:27.920 --> 37:42.160 Anyway, now on George's framework, not in the slightest but photo-realistic, but not 37:42.160 --> 37:43.160 necessarily relevant 37:43.160 --> 37:49.880 so we started here, right? 37:49.880 --> 37:53.080 And then we got some graphics. 37:53.080 --> 37:56.520 And shared, shared version, right? 37:56.520 --> 37:59.520 But then we got some better graphics. 37:59.520 --> 38:02.520 And a little bit more of a virtual world, right? 38:02.520 --> 38:06.320 This is all very early 38:06.320 --> 38:07.320 work. 38:07.320 --> 38:19.960 But I'm not sure they are conceptually different from us bouncing around and essential and 38:19.960 --> 38:21.840 or all know whatever now. 38:21.840 --> 38:23.840 How are they conceptually different? 38:23.840 --> 38:30.600 Is anything different other than the graphics are better? 38:30.600 --> 38:33.440 Is anything different other than the graphics are better, 38:33.440 --> 38:40.400 well, maybe now we have NFTs, which is a very specific topic, but for the metaverse aspect, 38:40.400 --> 38:49.200 I think the fundamental principles were already there in this year. 38:49.200 --> 38:59.360 And then I think the very obvious, you know, we come decades ahead. 38:59.360 --> 39:07.480 I think there's an excellent case that the massively multiplayer online role playing 39:07.480 --> 39:13.480 games are in the concept of plural metaverses, they're metaverses. 39:13.480 --> 39:25.440 A bit older, you enter a specific node, you have a specific role or character or avatar. 39:25.440 --> 39:36.200 There's persistence in some of these there are economies. 39:36.200 --> 39:44.280 I would credit them with being a metaverse research. 39:44.280 --> 39:49.000 Even our social layer metaverses have been doing it for a long time. 39:49.000 --> 40:00.520 Second life, very famously, got a lot of traction trying to build a metaverse in the 40:00.520 --> 40:01.520 2000s, 40:01.520 --> 40:04.520 it's been at least 10 years. 40:04.520 --> 40:12.520 I'm going to have to check exactly when it started. 40:12.520 --> 40:22.040 But it's been the same concepts as well there 40:22.040 --> 40:32.400 and a lot of the things we're seeing now with the blockchain based social virtual worlds 40:32.400 --> 40:38.040 existed then IBM is going to open a campus in Second Life. 40:38.040 --> 40:41.160 Some universities can open a campus in Second Life. 40:41.160 --> 40:47.440 Some retail stores are going to open a store in Second Life. 40:47.440 --> 40:49.360 We went through that cycle 40:49.360 --> 40:56.360 and it didn't totally quite stick with Second Life. 40:56.360 --> 40:58.960 Second Life is still up and running 40:58.960 --> 41:03.520 but it didn't take over the world the way. 41:03.520 --> 41:06.440 some people might have thought that it would. 41:06.440 --> 41:12.640 Here's another one. 41:12.640 --> 41:15.600 I ask myself this. 41:15.600 --> 41:22.480 Is NFT, Twitter and Discord a metaverse? 41:22.480 --> 41:29.080 Are those avatars or persistent digital objects? 41:29.080 --> 41:39.880 The world itself is persistent, my Twitter feed is persistent, my Discord feed is persistent. 41:39.880 --> 41:51.240 I come into them and I see the same type of people, characters, etc. 41:51.240 --> 41:56.920 There's definitely an economy. 41:56.920 --> 42:08.040 There is in fact a self-soverign economy because that economy primarily runs on the Ethereum blockchain. 42:08.040 --> 42:15.720 I'm thinking back to George's six factors. 42:15.720 --> 42:17.720 It's not photo-realistic. 42:17.720 --> 42:28.400 But OK maybe I'll it a little bit. 42:28.400 --> 42:34.360 Is NFT, Twitter and Discord and OpenSea and Oncyber and on-central and in some is this 42:34.360 --> 42:35.360 a metaverse? 42:35.360 --> 42:37.000 Sort of, I think. 42:37.000 --> 42:41.400 Is it fully polished and integrated? 42:41.400 --> 42:42.400 No. 42:42.400 --> 42:48.680 Is it a metaverse? 42:48.680 --> 42:49.680 I think. 42:49.680 --> 42:51.680 I think it is. 42:51.680 --> 42:59.880 And it's weird because here there's not one platform. 42:59.880 --> 43:13.600 Here what is to some degree serving as the unifying link is it there? 43:13.600 --> 43:20.680 And is it fully integrated that I signed Punk 6529 on Twitter and I signed Punk 6529 43:20.680 --> 43:21.680 on Discord? 43:21.680 --> 43:22.680 Why don't I sign on Discord? 43:22.680 --> 43:23.680 I could. 43:23.680 --> 43:24.680 I guess. 43:24.680 --> 43:25.680 Do it cloud-land. 43:25.680 --> 43:30.680 Do I Oncyber and on? 43:30.680 --> 43:32.880 Yeah, I do. 43:32.880 --> 43:40.640 And so, it feels to me that this is one a relatively more decentralized metaverse or relatively 43:40.640 --> 43:47.680 where the layer that ties people together imperfectly today. 43:47.680 --> 43:56.480 And with a lot of noise, not full signal, a lot of noise, is the Ethereum option? 43:56.480 --> 43:59.560 What's some other examples? 43:59.560 --> 44:01.560 What can I go? 44:01.560 --> 44:02.560 Okay. 44:02.560 --> 44:03.560 I'm just a parent. 44:03.560 --> 44:05.560 Does it have some metaverse characteristic? 44:05.560 --> 44:06.560 Yeah, it's persistent. 44:06.560 --> 44:07.560 Is there a community? 44:07.560 --> 44:08.560 Yeah. 44:08.560 --> 44:09.560 Is it a game? 44:09.560 --> 44:10.560 I don't know 44:10.560 --> 44:13.560 ask this question in a couple of seconds. 44:13.560 --> 44:24.680 Where is the line between any multiplayer game, and I also need this for the massively 44:24.680 --> 44:32.040 multiplayer online games, and Pokemon Go? 44:32.040 --> 44:34.080 Are the games or are the metaverse? 44:34.080 --> 44:36.440 I don't know. 44:36.440 --> 44:40.520 Is every game a metaverse? 44:40.520 --> 44:45.480 Does that just mean all games are metaverses? 44:45.480 --> 44:52.640 It feels like it diminishes the term of it. 44:52.640 --> 45:02.640 Also I feel like it diminishes the concept of metaverses, plural. 45:02.640 --> 45:15.160 Because you can't, there's no obvious stopping point on the point on when it's no longer a metaverse. 45:15.160 --> 45:28.640 So it's why my mental model often goes to someday it's just going to be metaverse singular. 45:28.640 --> 45:38.000 And then you don't have to have these highly theoretical discussions of is this a game, or 45:38.000 --> 45:39.000 is this a metaverse? 45:39.000 --> 45:40.000 Is this a virtual world? 45:40.000 --> 45:41.000 Is this a metaverse? 45:41.000 --> 45:43.920 Is this social media or is it a metaverse? 45:43.920 --> 45:52.480 Seems unhelpful, not particularly clear. 45:52.480 --> 45:57.120 And things that are unhelpful, frameworks are unhelpful and not particularly clear and don't 45:57.120 --> 46:04.480 drive any particular changes in behavior possibly might be not perfectly fine-tuned to the 46:04.480 --> 46:08.280 environment. 46:08.280 --> 46:14.960 Then we have the ones in our spaces, you know, the central and crypto console, some in other 46:14.960 --> 46:24.720 side, all of these that tend to be NFT based for the land assets. 46:24.720 --> 46:32.920 We do tend to have a centralized rendering delivery system. 46:32.920 --> 46:40.280 We'll talk about that in the very last session of the course. 46:40.280 --> 46:42.320 Here's my game slide. 46:42.320 --> 46:45.520 Is it a game or is it a metaverse? 46:45.520 --> 46:46.840 It doesn't matter. 46:46.840 --> 46:47.840 Right? 46:47.840 --> 46:54.840 Does that mean none of these things matter? 46:54.840 --> 47:00.120 Instead of fighting what exactly is or isn't a metaverse, 47:00.120 --> 47:05.920 if you go to the generic definition that it is, the internet with better visualization 47:05.920 --> 47:11.840 and persistent digital objects starts to get interesting. 47:11.840 --> 47:17.680 You sidestep all these questions. 47:17.680 --> 47:20.360 Let's talk about openness for a second. 47:20.360 --> 47:23.920 We'll talk about a lot more in session 12. 47:23.920 --> 47:28.280 That's why I haven't got into great detail here 47:28.280 --> 47:37.560 but I think it is useful to at least touch upon it a little bit. 47:37.560 --> 47:40.440 All of these are versions of openness. 47:40.440 --> 47:45.600 Some of them more open than others, I think. 47:45.600 --> 47:48.160 Let's start at the top. 47:48.160 --> 47:49.160 Interoperability. 47:49.160 --> 47:55.240 All of the big closed metaverses are going to talk about this. 47:55.240 --> 47:56.240 Why? 47:56.240 --> 48:03.320 Because partially for PR reasons, regulators like interoperability, and so 48:03.320 --> 48:10.560 nobody is going to come say, I don't want to be interoperable with others. 48:10.560 --> 48:16.880 There are also cases where interoperability helps the big guys because they can absorb 48:16.880 --> 48:18.880 other users. 48:18.880 --> 48:29.280 And so expect from the big closed platforms, none of them are going to say that they're 48:29.280 --> 48:30.280 closed. 48:30.280 --> 48:39.360 What they're going to say is "we are absolutely in favor of interoperability". 48:39.360 --> 48:46.160 That interoperability, of course, is going to be driven through closed systems and some 48:46.160 --> 48:49.200 interaction models with closed systems. 48:49.200 --> 48:57.040 And usually what happens in this case is there's a game to make it easy to come into 48:57.040 --> 49:08.840 your world or application or what have you, and make it hard or inconvenient to leave. 49:08.840 --> 49:21.480 This is usually how people deal with interoperability. 49:21.480 --> 49:26.840 Let's say that is the absolute bottom layer of openness. 49:26.840 --> 49:37.040 Let's say the next layer, which is where most of the activity today is in the space. 49:37.040 --> 49:43.920 This is like a kind of five step model. 49:43.920 --> 49:47.760 A lot of people say, yeah, no, all your digital objects. 49:47.760 --> 49:54.040 Your land in, fill-in-the-bank is an NFT. 49:54.040 --> 49:56.040 We can't take it from you. 49:56.040 --> 49:57.880 So that's good. 49:57.880 --> 50:02.320 It's certainly better and from my opinion, better than the alternative. 50:02.320 --> 50:11.040 But also, this usually comes with a bunch of terms and conditions. 50:11.040 --> 50:16.080 If you want to play this object in our world, you got to do these things or we can kick 50:16.080 --> 50:21.520 you out, which is different than saying, you know, Bitcoin. 50:21.520 --> 50:27.040 Bitcoin does not come with terms and conditions like Bitcoin. 50:27.040 --> 50:32.720 No one can kick you out of the Bitcoin world. 50:32.720 --> 50:33.720 Next topic. 50:33.720 --> 50:34.720 Governance models. 50:34.720 --> 50:37.720 Is someone in charge? 50:37.720 --> 50:43.640 Some of the metaverse NFT/metaverse platforms, games, etc. 50:43.640 --> 50:47.520 It's very clear there's a company in charge. 50:47.520 --> 50:53.680 They make the decisions and you play as a customer in effect. 50:53.680 --> 51:04.080 Some others have some form of partially decentralized governments where different districts can 51:04.080 --> 51:13.320 make decisions for themselves, but they do still, I think, fall within broader top-level 51:13.320 --> 51:16.960 governments. 51:16.960 --> 51:17.960 Next topic, what's the client? 51:17.960 --> 51:22.880 You know, what's the client and what's the server, do the client and the server go together? 51:22.880 --> 51:28.040 You know, some folks are trying to do open the Web3 types of servers, what we need in 51:28.040 --> 51:29.040 the browser. 51:29.040 --> 51:32.880 There's a some downsides, you know, that infrastructure is more developed to doing it 51:32.880 --> 51:36.280 with one of the gaming platforms 51:36.280 --> 51:43.880 but browsers are more open 51:43.880 --> 51:46.880 as a endpoint. 51:46.880 --> 51:53.880 I think nobody has right now, there's multiple rendering environments. 51:53.880 --> 52:04.400 Like on all these, you have to go, even the ones who have open clients and ownership of 52:04.400 --> 52:16.480 digital objects as NFTs, there's still a form of interoperability as opposed to being 52:16.480 --> 52:19.480 fully decentralized and open 52:19.480 --> 52:23.480 and if it's fully decentralized and open, again, the rental model is Bitcoin; anyone can run 52:23.480 --> 52:32.480 a Bitcoin client, anyone can run a Bitcoin miner, you don't have to go to Bitcoin.com to 52:32.480 --> 52:34.480 do something. 52:34.480 --> 52:45.440 Today, every one of the platforms, you have to go to a platform-name.com or.io to run 52:45.440 --> 52:46.440 a Bitcoin miner. 52:46.440 --> 52:48.440 It is a point of centralization. 52:48.440 --> 52:51.440 It's a point of not censorship-resistant. 52:51.440 --> 52:56.440 Everything we've got in the whole sale, I can't get one, but you can take them and rebuild 52:56.440 --> 52:58.440 them somewhere else, and yeah, that's fine. 52:58.440 --> 53:01.440 But that's some more interoperability. 53:01.440 --> 53:03.440 It's the last... 53:03.440 --> 53:07.440 What I'd like to see, or I'd like to get to it, is I might not get to, which is why I'm 53:07.440 --> 53:10.440 not saying all of these things yet, because it's not. 53:10.440 --> 53:12.440 I hope to get them. 53:12.440 --> 53:14.440 It's not today. 53:14.440 --> 53:20.440 So, is that anyone can do any of these things? 53:20.440 --> 53:22.440 Like the Internet. 53:22.440 --> 53:29.440 There is not one place you can have a website. 53:29.440 --> 53:37.440 Even if it's on popular website, confidential systems, WordPress, there's not one place 53:37.440 --> 53:39.440 where you can run WordPress. 53:39.440 --> 53:45.440 You can host your site on WordPress.org. 53:45.440 --> 53:53.440 But if you also download WordPress Self-Reserving chosen, you can run the WordPress software 53:53.440 --> 53:54.440 by yourself. 53:54.440 --> 53:58.440 You don't need anyone's permission to do this. 53:58.440 --> 54:04.440 There is no global governance governing one WordPress site. 54:04.440 --> 54:08.440 There's not one company that owns all the WordPress sites. 54:08.440 --> 54:10.440 It's all right. 54:10.440 --> 54:15.440 And this is, I guess, metaverse is going to be exactly WordPress? No, but it's a useful 54:15.440 --> 54:16.440 example to think about. 54:16.440 --> 54:19.440 Are there centralized companies that are built on top of WordPress? Sure 54:19.440 --> 54:22.440 Are some of them variable? 54:22.440 --> 54:23.440 Sure. 54:23.440 --> 54:25.440 Is WordPress centralized? 54:25.440 --> 54:27.440 No, it's not. 54:27.440 --> 54:28.440 It's open. 54:28.440 --> 54:29.440 It's decentralized. 54:29.440 --> 54:37.440 So, I think these are things we'll talk about more in four weeks, but I do want to, like, 54:37.440 --> 54:40.440 introduce them to the discussion. 54:40.440 --> 55:04.440 Now, let me pause there because I'm on one hour and three minutes. 55:04.440 --> 55:12.440 So, we'll switch to questions. 55:12.440 --> 55:20.440 But I do think the three big takeaways, I would say, the is a new found interest in the 55:20.440 --> 55:21.440 metaverse. 55:21.440 --> 55:28.440 Anyways, multiple potential frameworks on what THE metaverse or A metaverse is, 55:28.440 --> 55:31.440 and there's multiple different candidates over the years of things that could have been 55:31.440 --> 55:34.440 or might have been metaverses. 55:34.440 --> 55:40.440 And I think all of these are works in progress and a space where I think it's going to evolve 55:40.440 --> 55:41.440 very quickly. 55:41.440 --> 55:46.440 In five, ten, fifteen, twenty years, we're going to have a different framework on these 55:46.440 --> 55:47.440 topics. 55:47.440 --> 55:55.440 So, let me open up my chat so I can see 55:55.440 --> 56:02.440 and then I'll switch to questions. 56:25.440 --> 56:28.440 56:28.440 --> 56:31.440 56:31.440 --> 56:34.440 56:34.440 --> 56:38.440 56:38.440 --> 56:46.440 56:46.440 --> 57:04.440 57:04.440 --> 57:05.440 Okay. 57:05.440 --> 57:06.440 First question. 57:06.440 --> 57:09.440 "Why doesn't your definition include decentralized platforms? 57:09.440 --> 57:11.440 It's so important." 57:11.440 --> 57:13.440 Yeah, I agree. 57:13.440 --> 57:22.440 I'm running around, tweeting all day long about the open metaverse. 57:22.440 --> 57:29.440 But I need to be in touch and honest in this presentation because it is perfectly possible 57:29.440 --> 57:36.440 that the open metaverse doesn't happen. 57:36.440 --> 57:44.440 I hope that's not the case. 57:44.440 --> 57:49.440 I'm spending an infinite amount of time hoping it does happen. 57:49.440 --> 57:53.440 But the metaverse could exist 57:53.440 --> 57:56.440 that is closed. 57:56.440 --> 57:59.440 And I think it would still be a metaverse. 57:59.440 --> 58:01.440 It would be a closed metaverse. 58:01.440 --> 58:03.440 I'd be less happy about it, but there is no reason why it couldn't exist 58:03.440 --> 58:10.440 So, me, as 6529 believe in open metaverse. 58:10.440 --> 58:18.440 Me as someone running your presentation on what a metaverse is, I don't think it is by definition 58:18.440 --> 58:19.440 decentralized. 58:19.440 --> 58:21.440 An open metaverse might be. 58:21.440 --> 58:22.440 Right? 58:22.440 --> 58:26.440 That's why I added the slide on open. 58:26.440 --> 58:33.440 "The Giaglis Framework seems to bridge metaverse with a Web3 ethos. 58:33.440 --> 58:35.440 Is that the intention? 58:35.440 --> 58:37.440 Because not all visions of the metaverse do this." 58:37.440 --> 58:40.440 Yeah, now I noticed that when I read it. 58:40.440 --> 58:46.440 George is a crypto person, has been for a very long time. 58:46.440 --> 58:49.440 And so, 58:49.440 --> 58:56.440 I am not surprised that there is a Web3 ethos embedded in his metaverse framework. 58:56.440 --> 59:04.440 And I think a lot of people who do not come from this Web3/Crypto aspect 59:04.440 --> 59:19.440 do not include those parameters at all 59:19.440 --> 59:26.440 So, I'm glad he has included them. 59:26.440 --> 59:36.440 Does the 6529 framework believe they will be connected? 59:36.440 --> 59:37.440 Well, I hope so. 59:37.440 --> 59:41.440 I hope the basis, I'm parking this until week 12 59:41.440 --> 59:44.440 because week 12, I'm going to be a little bit more personal. 59:44.440 --> 59:49.440 And a week eight, I'm trying to be a little bit more neutral 59:49.440 --> 59:50.440 I guess. 59:50.440 --> 59:58.440 My view is that we 59:58.440 --> 00:02.440 have a mechanism to make them interoperable. 00:02.440 --> 00:06.440 and that mechanism is a kind of tease. 00:06.440 --> 00:15.440 And instead of having some large organizations decide on interoperability standards, 00:15.440 --> 00:21.440 but fundamentally work in closed 00:21.440 --> 00:27.440 environments. 00:27.440 --> 00:32.440 00:32.440 --> 00:36.440 NFTs are fundamentally open environment 00:36.440 --> 00:38.440 and then people can build on top of them 00:38.440 --> 00:40.440 but I want to talk about that in the week 12. 00:40.440 --> 00:45.440 There were heading away from. 00:45.440 --> 00:48.440 An objective understanding of the situation to my personal belief 00:48.440 --> 00:52.440 on what would be better. 00:52.440 --> 00:55.440 "What is the overlap between the concepts of metaverse and cryptocurrency?" 00:55.440 --> 01:01.440 Well, if you want a 01:01.440 --> 01:03.440 closed metaverse, you don't need any. 01:03.440 --> 01:05.440 You can run a close metaverse where 01:05.440 --> 01:10.440 people own the game objects, but in 01:10.440 --> 01:14.440 Epic's database, people can pay for them with credits in 01:14.440 --> 01:17.440 Epic's database. 01:17.440 --> 01:24.440 01:24.440 --> 01:28.440 01:28.440 --> 01:31.440 A lot of companies are going to do that, to be honest. 01:31.440 --> 01:35.440 So, 01:35.440 --> 01:37.440 if you want an open 01:37.440 --> 01:39.440 metaverse 01:39.440 --> 01:46.440 with not one party in charge with not one person's database in charge. 01:46.440 --> 01:57.440 Well, then you need something that's on a database and that's really a blockchain and specifically a public blockchain, which is what we call a cryptocurrency or crypto asset. 01:57.440 --> 02:02.440 So, that is a good question. 02:02.440 --> 02:08.440 I thought there was a social aspect to the metaverse versus just the 3D space, but it wasn't included in the definitions. 02:08.440 --> 02:11.440 This is a very good point 02:11.440 --> 02:15.440 and we need to think about it. 02:15.440 --> 02:20.440 That needs to get on the slide somewhere. 02:20.440 --> 02:22.440 Yeah, for sure 02:22.440 --> 02:23.440 there's a social aspect 02:23.440 --> 02:26.440 and it's kind of implicitly there 02:26.440 --> 02:28.440 and it should be made explicitly there, 02:28.440 --> 02:34.440 I mean, one mental model that I sometimes have 02:34.440 --> 02:36.440 are 02:36.440 --> 02:43.440 metaverses just social networks 02:43.440 --> 02:46.440 with just different visualizations. 02:46.440 --> 02:49.440 But overall, those are social networks. 02:49.440 --> 02:58.440 I don't know. 02:58.440 --> 03:03.440 But we need to put a slide in there, which says this 03:03.440 --> 03:06.440 explicitly. 03:06.440 --> 03:17.440 High risk that large companies get to set the rules for metaverse, is that a threat or a possibility in your opinion. Yes, in fact, the whole reason 6529 exists is that I think that 03:17.440 --> 03:19.440 that is a very high risk. 03:19.440 --> 03:21.440 I think that is the default case. 03:21.440 --> 03:25.440 I think the default case is that 03:25.440 --> 03:32.440 metaverses will become like Web2, they will be centralized in 5, 10, 15, 20 companies 03:32.440 --> 03:34.440 and I think that's about outcome, 03:34.440 --> 03:45.440 and that's my personal opinion. I don't think that's an objective view about the metaverse someone might have. Someone from Meta might think it's better not to be that way. 03:45.440 --> 03:48.440 I mean, to be that way, but, 03:48.440 --> 03:51.440 for sure I think it's worse. 03:51.440 --> 04:03.440 "Do you believe in a future of the concept of land and gravity in metaverse? To me, they seem like artificial limitations of limit the entry barrier as people are familiar with 04:03.440 --> 04:06.440 these concepts." 04:06.440 --> 04:15.440 Well, I mean, 04:15.440 --> 04:23.440 I hear this fairly often. 04:23.440 --> 04:33.440 From people who are 04:33.440 --> 04:35.440 very deep into the space. 04:35.440 --> 04:39.440 And as hell these things are just total skill morphism. 04:39.440 --> 04:42.440 They're limitations. 04:42.440 --> 04:45.440 We don't need to stick to the land concept. 04:45.440 --> 04:50.440 We don't need to stick to the human scale concept. 04:50.440 --> 04:58.440 And I appreciate that in theory 04:58.440 --> 05:01.440 now, without a counter argument 05:01.440 --> 05:04.440 which is the following. 05:04.440 --> 05:07.440 The counter argument is, 05:07.440 --> 05:14.440 almost we've been making video games for several decades now 05:14.440 --> 05:20.440 a,nd those video games 05:20.440 --> 05:22.440 have been 05:22.440 --> 05:25.440 overwhelmingly 05:25.440 --> 05:28.440 05:28.440 --> 05:46.440 skeuomorphic with land and gravity and things of that nature. 05:46.440 --> 05:59.440 I think there is something to that, 05:59.440 --> 06:07.440 I don't think it's accidental 06:07.440 --> 06:17.440 that almost all games match these types of models. I don't think it's an accident. 06:17.440 --> 06:22.440 I also have 06:22.440 --> 06:28.440 seen attempts to make hugely conceptual spaces 06:28.440 --> 06:31.440 and every attempt I've seen so far, 06:31.440 --> 06:34.440 has been kind of junk. 06:34.440 --> 06:37.440 Now, maybe the space is really good, but the problem is like 06:37.440 --> 06:40.440 our mental models are stuck on 06:40.440 --> 06:43.440 things looking a little bit like the real world. 06:43.440 --> 06:44.440 Maybe. 06:44.440 --> 06:47.440 But it's kind of six and one and a half dozen of the other. 06:47.440 --> 06:48.440 It's. 06:48.440 --> 06:50.440 06:58.440 --> 07:02.440 I have yet to see one where it works. 07:02.440 --> 07:04.440 So in theory, 07:04.440 --> 07:08.440 yes, these are official limitations and we can do whatever we want, 07:08.440 --> 07:09.440 and practice, 07:09.440 --> 07:11.440 whatever we want. 07:11.440 --> 07:13.440 So far has ended up looking 07:13.440 --> 07:15.440 kind of like the real world. 07:15.440 --> 07:16.440 Now, not exactly like the real world but, 07:16.440 --> 07:19.440 there's gravity in home, for example, but not a lot of gravity, 07:19.440 --> 07:21.440 you can jump really high. 07:21.440 --> 07:27.440 So 07:27.440 --> 07:33.440 to prove it otherwise, 07:33.440 --> 07:37.440 I would expect most things will somehow correlate with real world 07:37.440 --> 07:38.440 concepts. 07:38.440 --> 07:40.440 "Thoughts on digital twins using the metaverse." 07:40.440 --> 07:44.440 So digital twins are a digital representation of something in the 07:44.440 --> 07:45.440 physical world, 07:45.440 --> 07:48.440 and they came out of the world of like 07:48.440 --> 07:51.440 high end equipment manufacturing and so on. 07:51.440 --> 07:55.440 And so you have like a turbine and you make a physical copy of the turbine and 07:55.440 --> 07:58.440 you put on the physical turbine sensors 07:58.440 --> 08:02.440 and those sensors feed data to the digital twin 08:02.440 --> 08:05.440 and so you can watch and monitor, 08:05.440 --> 08:07.440 the 08:07.440 --> 08:09.440 turbine 08:09.440 --> 08:11.440 during 08:11.440 --> 08:13.440 In the digital world. 08:13.440 --> 08:14.440 And you know 08:14.440 --> 08:16.440 say, oh, look, there's 08:16.440 --> 08:17.440 data is coming out of line, 08:17.440 --> 08:19.440 the turbines are not behaving normally, 08:19.440 --> 08:22.440 let's go fix it in the physical world before it breaks. 08:22.440 --> 08:23.440 Now there's other use cases too 08:23.440 --> 08:27.440 I think in time you'll have cities where you'll see full in some 08:27.440 --> 08:30.440 cities, there are cities with digital twins, but they'll get better where 08:30.440 --> 08:35.440 you'll say, look, we're monitoring traffic flows and pollution and waste 08:35.440 --> 08:38.440 water and disease spread. 08:38.440 --> 08:41.440 Absolutely is going to exist 08:41.440 --> 08:46.440 I think for 08:46.440 --> 08:48.440 kind of boring 08:48.440 --> 08:54.440 I'm sorry, not boring, what is the word I'm looking for. 08:54.440 --> 08:56.440 Institutional use. 08:56.440 --> 08:59.440 Not like hanging out fun social use actually think digital twins are going 08:59.440 --> 09:01.440 to be very important 09:01.440 --> 09:04.440 because they will give us 09:04.440 --> 09:07.440 a viable 09:07.440 --> 09:10.440 model 09:10.440 --> 09:13.440 to improve the real world and monitor the real world better. 09:13.440 --> 09:15.440 So I'm fairly bullish on these as a concept 09:15.440 --> 09:18.440 I can't an architecture. 09:18.440 --> 09:20.440 How do we protect these from being copied? 09:20.440 --> 09:25.440 I don't think it's easy to be honest. 09:25.440 --> 09:27.440 Just like anything else on the Internet, 09:27.440 --> 09:30.440 how do you protect them from being copied? 09:30.440 --> 09:32.440 Not that easily. 09:32.440 --> 09:35.440 So what do you have to aim for? 09:35.440 --> 09:37.440 Well, the same, 09:37.440 --> 09:40.440 I mean, it's a version of right click. 09:40.440 --> 09:48.440 And so you're going to have to have some concept of 09:48.440 --> 09:51.440 providence 09:51.440 --> 09:55.440 for that 09:55.440 --> 09:58.440 09:58.440 --> 10:01.440 not to be a big issue. 10:01.440 --> 10:05.440 But I do think like, if you make a cool looking building somewhere 10:05.440 --> 10:07.440 might someone copy it somewhere else? 10:07.440 --> 10:11.440 yeah, I think that one comes. 10:11.440 --> 10:15.440 I don't see it obviously for it not to happen 10:15.440 --> 10:21.440 so I think given what we've learned from NFTs, 10:21.440 --> 10:23.440 if 10:23.440 --> 10:27.440 X copy makes some cool X copy building 10:27.440 --> 10:31.440 and there are 1000 tokens of that X copy building 10:31.440 --> 10:36.440 and 10:36.440 --> 10:40.440 you own one of those, 10:40.440 --> 10:42.440 that's going to be different 10:42.440 --> 10:47.440 and more valuable than someone who just right clicked saved your X copy building. 10:47.440 --> 10:56.440 So I suspect we're going to have to use the same frameworks and mental models that we use for digital art for digital buildings. 10:56.440 --> 10:58.440 I don't see any other 10:58.440 --> 11:01.440 way around it. 11:01.440 --> 11:09.440 You want provenance and tokenization 11:09.440 --> 11:15.440 to manage this topic. 11:15.440 --> 11:19.440 There's a question that I don't have about the slightest idea what it means 11:19.440 --> 11:22.440 or how to answer it but I'm going to read it because it's amuzing. 11:22.440 --> 11:28.440 "Is a metaverse a way of function with multiple potentials with collapsing one through observation? 11:28.440 --> 11:34.440 I think quantum computers will drastically change the metaverse definitions." 11:34.440 --> 11:38.440 I kind of understand the words 11:38.440 --> 11:41.440 and sort of the concepts behind this 11:41.440 --> 11:44.440 I just don't have any idea how to answer this question. 11:44.440 --> 11:47.440 So I didn't think it would be hard to read it for everyone 11:47.440 --> 11:52.440 in case it's helpful for anyone else. 11:52.440 --> 11:55.440 "What's the best book you've read about constructs?" 11:55.440 --> 11:58.440 I mean the classic book on this right is Snow Crash, 11:58.440 --> 12:03.440 everyone starts there. 12:03.440 --> 12:09.440 Actually I think a book that people don't think of as directly being a metaverse book. 12:09.440 --> 12:12.440 It is kind of a metaverse book. 12:12.440 --> 12:22.440 A mixed reality metaverse book is the series of 12:22.440 --> 12:32.440 Demon and Freedom. 12:32.440 --> 12:37.440 So, 12:37.440 --> 12:42.440 it's interesting because it's basically a gaming platform. 12:42.440 --> 12:47.440 Like wild and started. 12:47.440 --> 12:50.440 Impacting behavior in the real world, 12:50.440 --> 12:55.440 and it is a form of metaverse, 12:55.440 --> 12:59.440 I think. 12:59.440 --> 13:02.440 A kind of an abstract form of metaverse like some of these ones we're talking about 13:02.440 --> 13:09.440 so I threw it out there not because it's... 13:09.440 --> 13:12.440 it's not a classic book of the genre 13:12.440 --> 13:18.440 but I think there's a mental model that you could view it there and I find it's interesting. 13:18.440 --> 13:21.440 "Aren't you afraid that the metaverse will become a trap? 13:21.440 --> 13:24.440 A.I. and robotics throw us from offices 13:24.440 --> 13:26.440 there'll be nothing to do. 13:26.440 --> 13:31.440 The metaverse can be such a golden cage to socialize and entertain us." 13:31.440 --> 13:35.440 Well, I mean 13:35.440 --> 13:38.440 I'm not sure I believe the premises of this question. 13:38.440 --> 13:45.440 But, if A.I. and robotics start doing all the work for us, 13:45.440 --> 13:50.440 we probably will hang out in the metaverse more. 13:50.440 --> 13:54.440 I know this question is written with a value judgment in it. 13:54.440 --> 13:56.440 But, 13:56.440 --> 13:59.440 maybe the value judgment is opposite. 13:59.440 --> 14:02.440 Maybe if the machines do all of our 14:02.440 --> 14:04.440 work for us 14:04.440 --> 14:09.440 we can be the people focused on 14:09.440 --> 14:12.440 self development and self expression. 14:12.440 --> 14:15.440 I'm a little skeptical of how that will play out. 14:15.440 --> 14:18.440 It hasn't played out and I'm 14:18.440 --> 14:23.440 actually not sure it's super healthy for humans not to have challenges 14:23.440 --> 14:27.440 so I don't know if it's going to play out that way. 14:27.440 --> 14:35.440 But yeah, I mean conceivably in the world that the A.I.s are good enough to do all our work, 14:35.440 --> 14:40.440 but not good enough to get rid of us, 14:40.440 --> 14:44.440 will we keep ourselves, or to frame it differently, 14:44.440 --> 14:49.440 keep ourselves more occupied with social activities from people around the world? 14:49.440 --> 14:51.440 Sure. 14:51.440 --> 14:53.440 Is that metaverse a golden cage? 14:53.440 --> 14:54.440 Maybe 14:54.440 --> 14:56.440 but like 14:56.440 --> 15:01.440 I don't know if there's any more of a golden cage than Twitter is today. 15:01.440 --> 15:03.440 And some people say, oh, putters not. 15:03.440 --> 15:08.440 It's taking people away from real life. 15:08.440 --> 15:15.440 15:15.440 --> 15:25.440 15:25.440 --> 15:30.440 Do you see our visual one largely the same as we come up on a year of their deal? 15:30.440 --> 15:31.440 Yeah 15:31.440 --> 15:32.440 more or less exactly the same 15:32.440 --> 15:34.440 I'll talk about it more in week 12 15:34.440 --> 15:39.440 and I want to make the session more general. 15:39.440 --> 15:44.440 Okay, I think we're an hour and a half. 15:44.440 --> 15:46.440 Let's wrap it here. 15:46.440 --> 15:49.440 Thank you as always for joining. 15:49.440 --> 15:52.440 We'll make the announcements in a little bit about 15:52.440 --> 15:57.440 regional and course logistics a little bit so we can start getting the guests back and coming. 15:57.440 --> 16:03.440 There's just an awful lot going on and the teams are doing a great job 16:03.440 --> 16:04.440 working on things. 16:04.440 --> 16:09.440 So we're just going to give ourselves a little bit more breathing room to get everything done. 16:09.440 --> 16:11.440 Can anyone build them on the other? 16:11.440 --> 16:12.440 You need to. 16:12.440 --> 16:15.440 Can anyone can use a space and put NFT's in it. 16:15.440 --> 16:18.440 If you want to design spaces, you do need some 16:18.440 --> 16:22.440 experience and 3D modeling, but if you have that, yes, you can do that. 16:22.440 --> 16:24.440 All right, everyone. 16:24.440 --> 16:27.440 Thank you so much as always. 16:27.440 --> 16:30.440 And I'll see you back on Twitter. 16:30.440 --> 16:34.440 Sure.